I have an sg-400 custom that always goes out of tune and I want to get some new tuners for it. Would gibson tuners fit into an epiphone headstock? http://www.zzounds.com/item--GIBAMHV -Thanks!

You should get the gibson modern tuners if you are serious about staying in tune perfectly. (after you swap out the nut and saddles too)

The klusson style are not very precise. I like them because they give good visual appeal. Classy.

heres what a reviewer had to say:

"Buy And Epiphone!"
Feature:
As a Gibson authorized repairman, I called the company about these tuners. After a long distance runaround, I was told the Gibson guitars weren't for players, they were for collectors, if I wanted a guitar that played well, and stayed in tune, buy an Epiphone. I immediately resigned as a Gibson repairman, and won't ever endorse their products again. I have a 68 Les Paul Custom with black tape over the Gibson logo. The company has become a cash cow for the new owners.

Quality:
Sadly, with the amount of money paid for it, it should be better. The finish looks like it was sprayed on by a spastic. The wood underneath was not silexed, so the grain shows thru, and I'm not pleased with the overall quality.

Value:
A two thousand dollar guitar should be a thing to be proud of. I set it next to my 68 and just shake my head sadly.

Desirability:
It looks good from a distance.

Sound:
Although these tuners look vintage, they suck. They are prone to slipping incrementally, causing the guitar to go out of tune very quickly. I have a set in a coffee can in my shop. I went to gotoh tuners which at least stay in tune. And before anyone says I am not winding the strings correctly, I am a luthier, and restring guitars daily. When a product fails to work, the company should do something about it, instead of trading on the past to rake in more profits.

Ease of Use:
After dressing the frets, adjusting the intonation, and replacing the tuners, my Les Paul rocks. I have also had to replace the pick-up selector switch, and one volume control is scratchy.

Support:
I couldn't even turn in a bill for the repairs, and this was a brand new guitar. "That's how they are made now" was Gibson's response

Overall:
It mostly sits in it's overpriced case in the closet. I could not, with a clear conscience, resell it for even half of what I paid for it.


This was about the tuners ....

You should get these buddy, if you are adament about tuning:
http://www.zzounds.com/item--GIBAMHM

or an even better set that a luthier friend of mine swears by:
http://accessories.music...0&CAWELAID=99170188
Id put them on my axes but they are too pricey. I bought some wilkinsons for $22. They arent as good, but the look is all i wanted. Im not bad with tuning, my graphtech saddles and nut along with a good stringing method keep me in tune

The way I look at it, any faithful reissue would have Grovers on it with the Kluson screw holes like the Lennon Revolution. I remember back in the late '60s my friend Vinnie Drury bought a used Gibson L4-C and a set og Grovers at the same time. He knew he was going to swap them out, and it's the first thing he did when he got home. Swap the tuners and put new strings on it. It's what Lennon did, it's what everybody did, except me. My Gibson ES-330 had Klusons with the little buttons, Vinnie gave me the Klusons from the L4-C. They had the pearly keystone buttons. Looked fantastic on my 330, they couldn't hold tune at all.

A few years ago, I built a 12-string Telecaster with a Warmoth neck with vintage Kluson sized holes. The Klusons I bought for it were terrible, not only didn't they hold tune, but 3 of them would slip as you were tuning the guitar. Just as bad as the '60s crapola. I ended up buying a set of no name Asian tuners (maybe made by Gotoh???) that were 1/2 the price and twice as good. But nowhere near as good as Grovers.

For the most part, the top of the line Giibsons, Epiphones, Guilds, Gretsches etc. came with Grover Rotomatics or Imperials. The mid models had Klusons, although Gretsch used the open back Grovers a lot. The cheap models had junk. There's a reason why.

Back then, players upgraded to improve performance. Nowadays, it seems people downgrade for appearance.



I'm curious, did you read the seven reviews at zzounds???

Well said, Jerry!

The bigger issue is that there is no answer to this problem.

If you go to the store and buy a shirt and realize it is crap, well, you just don't go back and buy anymore, right?

If you have the money you can always get a tailor to make one for you with the quality you want.

But with an instrument, if you go to a Lutherier and have them make you a quality instrument they still have to use the mass produced crap that basically makes up what the current global marketplace is offering.

Or at least that is the case with a guitar.

I live across the street from a violin/cello Lutherier. I asked him about what market products he uses or would recommend. His response was something like:

"Well, when a customer requests inlay, I go to the beach, get some shells, polish them up, and cut out the inlays pattern."

"When I need a tuner, I take a block of wood and carve it into what I need."

"Basically, I create from scratch every part of the instrument with the exception of the strings. And, I usually tell my customers to buy a carbon bow."

As the expansion of the global market flattens the world opening the door to more and more poor quality knock-offs, and Wall Street continues to demand higher and higher yearly profitability reporting the products we (worldwide) will all see, will be constantly getting crappier and crappier.

If interested in classically looking tuners, take a look at these:http://guitar-machine-heads.com/download/CY25a14e89X11a9adccd5aXY65db/TZ_GitarrenMechanik_ST6K.pdf

Everyone's down on the vintage klusons and the fact they won't stay in tune.

They are vintage after all..and people just want to go for the "snot green keystone look" as
they are traditional Gibson tuners and they look cool. Sure there are a lot of better tuners
out there today, but lets not forget that a lot of players over the years have played their guitars
with these vintage Klusons and still managed to put out some decent recordings with them.

It comes down to whether you either like them or don't. I have a couple of Epiphones Emp IIs,
that I replaced the OEM better geared asian made Gotoh style tuners,
with some asian made Kluson style (well keystone style), for improving the looks,
and I don't have any trouble with them slipping.

So maybe I'm just lucky or maybe the asian GFS versions are made to closer tolerances
that the USA vintage tuners.

I replaced the original grovers on my g400 with Grover Classics.

I put a set of Grover Locking Rotomatics (18:1 ratio) on my Gretsch 5120 and a set of Grover Mini Locking Rotomatics (18:1) on my Epi '56 Gold Top Les Paul. The Mini's replaced the stock Grovers on the LP and the Roto's replaced Asian "Sta-Tite" open gear tuners on my Gretsch. Each set cost me somewhere around $90 Cdn! My tech specified that these are the premium Grovers, not the $45 ones you usually see in the store - the mechanisms are much better. Also note that these are NOT exactly the same as the stock Epi Grovers and have a different mounting pattern (ie: you have to drill new screw holes).

If you prefer the keystone Kluson type of tuner, Grover offers the "Vintage 135 series" (14:1 ratio) - they look REAL sweet!

Here is Grover's website address (I believe they are owned by Gotoh):

http://www.grotro.com/Homer2.html